Meggie Palmer is the founder of tech company PepTalkHer. Meggie grew up on a small hobby farm on Australia’s Gold Coast and now lives on Sydney’s Bondi Beach. For more than a decade, Meggie traveled the world as a journalist, producer, and director for programs like SBS Dateline, Insight, and BBC World, meeting and interviewing a diverse range of people, including Queen Elizabeth II, Syrian President Bashar Al Assad, and Hugh Jackman. Meggie hung up her journalism hat to pursue a passion project, PepTalkHer, which aims to close the gender pay gap by empowering women with confidence and negotiation skills. She also runs a business called Sliding Door Media, which helps CEOs and founders of major corporates and startups communicate their stories clearly in the press. Meggie also spends time as an advisor to the NYC Board of Women in Tech. In this episode, Meggie talks about how she made her pivot from a 15-year career in journalism to tech and entrepreneurship, what women need to know that we always miss when asking for a raise, and how to figure out how much to ask for.
Meggie’s pivot to tech
It was frustration and annoyance with the tech industry that led to Meggie’s pivot. She was sick of seeing women not being paid their value, being sacked while on maternity leave or pregnant, and not being given time to look over contracts before signing. Unfortunately, most of these cases don’t end up in court because women feel too much pressure and stress to carry it through. The problem exists, and Meggie is passionate about solving it, believing she can use technology to help.
The sad truth
Meggie knows several women personally who have been sacked while pregnant or out on maternity leave. In some places, it is illegal to discriminate on these grounds, but it still does occur. Meggie says to all women that if you think you’re being discriminated against illegally, follow your gut, make the call, and find someone to help, like PepTalkHer or a lawyer. Meggie shares a personal example of two friends: one who was fired and didn’t want to “rock the boat,” and one that PepTalkHer helped secure a raise of $87,000. She says to draw a line in the sand and call out the company because it’s only when women speak up and don’t stand for it that things will change. It all comes down to our paving the way to end the unconscious bias.
How PepTalkHer helps
It’s not necessarily a lack of negotiation skills that handicaps most women, but it’s a lack of self-worth and confidence. You have to think, know, and believe that you are amazing and that you contribute valuable skills to your company. Your power helps you step into the next phase of negotiation. Meggie cautions us to know and weigh all the numbers in negotiating a salary or a raise.
If you’ve been beaten down . . .
Have you wondered how to get out of “the funk” at work? Sometimes the funk exists as the product of competition, and sometimes it is a toxic atmosphere. Your base level of confidence comes from your childhood and how you were raised, but not believing in yourself and not believing you are worthy are factors that can be relearned. Meggie uses the “nudge theory of psychology,” which teaches that if you can change your thinking and behavior ever so slightly each week, that over time you’ll see a difference. We have to acknowledge our self-limiting thoughts to change them!
Is it male bashing?
Many people equate efforts to close the gender pay gap to male bashing, but Meggie says that is just not true. Most men she works with are big supporters of PepTalkHer and its efforts. Closing the gender gap is the fair and equitable thing to do! The key is to view it as paying it forward and look for opportunities to help others in their careers, regardless of gender. Most men want to improve our society for their daughters so that everyone feels equally valued and appreciated.
How to ask for a raise
Meggie begins by saying, “Always ask for the raise.” In some places, it’s illegal for an employer to ask about your previous salary. Be prepared before the interview and have language with generic statements ready if you’re asked. Do your research so you know what you SHOULD be paid, and talk to colleagues and friends with whom you feel comfortable discussing salary.
How to advocate
In whatever situation you’re in, you have to list your priorities and values and know what is most important. If your goal is to make more money, then approach your boss with justifications for the raise. If you’re not heard, then it’s time to think about leaving that company. There is a time and place to climb the ladder to achieve your goals, but it all comes down to what you value most.
Pitfalls in the pay gap
Money, money, money – that’s the bottom line. If there is a gender pay gap, then you’re leaving money on the table, and the company is intentionally or inadvertently taking money away from you. Another pitfall is that fairness and equality should be core values—and that’s hard to accept when they aren’t. If we aren’t fighting for change,, then we are making it more difficult for those who are coming behind us. Your raise affects everyone around you, everyone in your family, and everyone who comes after you. Meggie says that reframing the conversation will give you more power and confidence in the negotiation.
Meggie’s side hustle
When Meggie knew she couldn’t retire at 40 on her journalist’s salary, she began to consider a side hustle. She started Sliding Door Media as a place where people could tell their stories to the media in ways that are inspiring and interesting. She works with entrepreneurs to help expand and grow their businesses exponentially through media coverage. This business has helped fund the PepTalkHer app so that they haven’t had to take public funding. Meggie’s advice is to take on a side hustle if it’s something you’ve contemplated. She shares how she makes time for herself and her sanity with “Fun Fridays,” in which she makes space for what she wants to do, besides just meetings and work.
Highlights of this episode:
- 2:42 – What it’s like to get sacked because you’re a woman
- 7:57 – How PepTalkHer “makes it happen”
- 11:16 – How to get out of the funk at work
- 19:03 – Advice for women and men
- 22:33 – What women need to know about asking for a raise
- 26:05 – When you’re in a group of suppressed women at work
- 29:48 – Pitfalls in the gender pay gap
- 34:44 – Meggie’s work with ELEVACAO and Women in Tech
- 37:04 – Meggie’s work with Sliding Door Media
- 39:31 – How Meggie makes time for herself
- 40:18 – Fem Five
Resources Mentioned:
- Find PepTalkHer on Instagram: @peptalkher
- Visit www.peptalkher.com to find out more and get Meggie’s free gift! Download a free ebook with tips for negotiating your next pay raise!
- www.elevacao.org
- Presence: Bringing Your Boldest Self to Your Biggest Challenges by Amy Cuddy
- Good & Mad: The Revolutionary Power of Women’s Anger by Rebecca Traister
- Eloquent Rage: A Black Feminist Discovers Her Superpower by Brittney Cooper
Fem Five:
1. Favorite book to recommend for women?
- Presence:Bringing Your Boldest Self to your Biggest Challenges by Amy Cuddy, Good & Mad : The Revolutionary Power of Women’s Anger by Rebecca Traister, and Eloquent Rage: A Black Feminist Discovers Her Superpower by Brittney Cooper
2. Favorite self-care hack?
- “I love to cook. It forces me to step away from meetings and my phone.”
3. Best piece of advice and who gave it to you?
- “Leap and the net will appear.”
4. Female CEO or thought leader you’re into right now?
5. One piece of advice you’d give your five years younger self?
- “Focus. Bite the bullet and do it.”
Last Time on The NextFem Podcast
Forging the Path to CEO for More Women – with Carey Jenkins
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